The Reminder Remedy with Alena Conley

Lead & Thrive: Managers are Human with Alicia Roebuck

• Alena Conley • Season 6 • Episode 69

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Guest: Alicia Roebuck, Career Coach

Episode Summary:

In the latest installment of "The Reminder Remedy," Alena Conley welcomes back Alicia Roebuck for their monthly "Lead and Thrive" episode. This discussion focuses on the critical role of management in shaping workplace experiences and performance outcomes. Alicia, drawing from extensive research and her own experiences, highlights how managers significantly influence team engagement and satisfaction. The episode delves into practical strategies for navigating and improving management relationships, recognizing personal career seasons, and making strategic career moves.

Key Highlights:

  1. The Impact of Management on Team Engagement
    • Alicia discusses a Gallup study revealing that 70% of team engagement variability is attributed to managers, underscoring the profound influence managers have on workplace dynamics and employee well-being.
  2. Navigating Personal Career Seasons
    • The concept of "career seasons" is introduced, explaining how individuals' priorities and needs evolve. Alicia shares insights on aligning career moves with these seasons to maximize satisfaction and growth.
  3. Strategies for Dealing with Management Challenges
    • Practical advice is offered on managing relationships with supervisors, including how to communicate effectively and set expectations that align with personal career goals.
  4. Building and Utilizing Personal Career Tools
    • Alicia emphasizes the importance of creating personal tracking systems for achievements and feedback, which aid in performance reviews and career advancement.

Mentioned Resources:

Connect with Alicia Roebuck:

Episode Quotes:

  • "Management isn't just about overseeing; it's about unlocking the potential of each team member." - Alicia Roebuck
  • "Recognize your career season to thrive in your professional journey." - Alicia Roebuck
Alicia R:

Welcome to lead and thrive a monthly segment on the reminder remedy podcast focused on career empowerment. I'm Alicia Roebuck, career coach, recruitment leader and career development enthusiast. And I am your guide through the realms of all things, career and overall growth. Join me in exploring the philosophy that drives our mission. Cultivating environments where skills and experience are recognized, opportunities are accessible, technology and tools are embraced and incorporated into everyday life, and individuals thrive in careers that align with their passion and purpose. Let's dive into the essence of empowering individuals toward a future of fulfilling, meaningful, and well compensated work.

Alena Conley:

Okay, really quickly guys before we hop into today's episode. I need two favors from you. If you are listening right now Click that plus sign for you to follow the show. This really helps us to pop into the algorithm of other and new listeners Number two if you are not already subscribed to my weekly newsletter You are missing out Every Monday, I send out a newsletter called Monday Musings. This is where I share all of my popular links from what I'm reading, the podcast that I'm listening to, what I'm watching, must haves, productivity hacks, random storytelling. Um, we have been doing this for about two months now and it's been a ton of fun. So if you're not subscribed, head over to thereminderremedy. com backslash newsletter to get subscribed today. Thank you. Welcome back everyone to yet another episode of the Reminder Remedy. I am Alina Conley, your host, and I am joined today by our resident career coach, Alicia Roebuck, for our monthly lead and thrive episode. so this is our second installment of this, so we are super excited and today we're going to be talking all about management. Um, one of the things that we know to be true is that your experience at a company or in a role, um, has a lot to do with who you're working for, who you're working with, who determines, your success, when it comes to your performance evaluations. And so I am so excited to hear about this topic because I think that is really going to allow people who are dealing with, tough situations to think about how they can move forward. But then also people who are in the management capacity to really think about. Um, the space that they have impact, when it comes to company policies or the way that we deliver any type of performance metrics. Um, but then also, you know, their own experience, kind of being in the middle, whether there's being a manager, but also being managed and kind of how to navigate that. So if you could just kind of kick us off with our deep dive, that would be amazing.

Alicia R:

Sure. Thank you again. So happy to be back. So why does management even matter? Right? So according to the Gallup article, how to engage frontline managers, most, they're being Gallup, Profound finding ever is that 70 percent of the variance in team engagement is determined solely by the manager, which that's a lot of pressure, right? I mean, I've been a manager before. And so when you think about frontline managers in particular, are the most crucial lever to success. whether that's engaging your organization's employees, or Helping for, you know, to build the success of your business. managers are one of the biggest levers of all. Right so this statistic really highlights the substantial impact that managers have on overall morale satisfaction productivity of their teams. So, essentially, it underscores the importance of effective management. Right? And fostering positive work environments and performance. So, in our 1st deep dive, we talked about burnout. Right and so, in that kind of overview, we talked about the 5 kind of areas that kind of highlight burnout for us. just to remind you all that you've outgrown your role. not what you signed up for. You're expected to over index on work, your work culture doesn't align with your values and or your workplace is toxic. Almost all of those things have something to do with managers. So, when we think about how important management is, these are the things that. will really contribute to our wellbeing at work and can contribute to the burnout that we experience. So this is a, such a worthy topic of discussion and I'm really looking forward to deep diving

Alena Conley:

Yeah,

Alicia R:

Yeah.

Alena Conley:

sometimes, though, we, we don't have any control over who we're assigned to. Right? And I know that, um, they're kind of different ways that we can approach it. And so when we think about. Looking for new roles or being in our current role. What are kind of the different Lanes that you feel like people have to kind of determine. Okay, what's my starting point when trying to? Actually figure out what to do in a situation where I feel like it's not working

Alicia R:

Well, first I think you think about your season. So everything that I hear on the reminder remedy is all about the seasonality of everything. Right. So your ambitious season, you might not care who you work for. Right. Like. matter. You have a plan. It doesn't there's nothing that can stand in your way and you may be more willing to contribute more to the role. If you're in a different season in, like, maybe a maintaining season, right? Where you're just like, I'm just trying to coast the next kind of, you know, promotion or whatever. There may be more things you need to consider, right? So I always say start with the season you're in. Be honest about the season you're in. I struggled a lot with this because my natural, you know, my natural inclination is Like a hundred percent, you get all of me. I'm at work, you get everything I have. And when I was being pulled personally to do other things, was no longer the reality. I didn't have a hundred percent to give to work. So balancing what that looks like in my mind was the first step, right? So seasons really matter in this case, because in my ambitious season, I didn't necessarily have the best managers, but. was willing to go above and beyond no matter what. In fact, I knew that I was choosing jobs with maybe not the most supportive managers or clients because of the season I was in. I was like, I'll do this for five years. I don't care who it is, I'm going to get to where I

Alena Conley:

How would you define though an ambitious season right so like what were kind of some of the I guess internal conversations that you were having because we it sounds like there were some some level of sacrifice or compromise that you were willing to deal with in that season because okay, you're like This is right now. I don't have a ton of external obligations So like if we're in a season where we're willing to compromise on certain things What do you feel like your voice was telling you? Okay, this is what is important to me right now Mmhmm.

Alicia R:

The biggest things were at the time I knew where I was in a client service role. So service and sales was like my day to day. I knew from a sales perspective, I knew the biggest client for that group was this team. So to be on that team, you were working with the biggest, you had the most access to all the products. knew that wasn't necessarily my passion. So I'm like, but here's where I am right now. want to learn. I want to grow. I want to have the best possible resume

Alena Conley:

Mmhmm. Mmhmm. Mmhmm.

Alicia R:

client with the most products and services? Why not work for that team? Right now they were notorious for not the nicest. They were notorious for, you know, just like really holding you accountable to everything you said. So I already knew like even the leader of that team, they were super on their game all the time, every time you saw them, they were

Alena Conley:

Yeah.

Alicia R:

game. So I knew I had to be on my game every single day. That meant

Alena Conley:

Mmhmm.

Alicia R:

For me, at least, um, I knew that wanted exposure to the business. So this particular group had particular shows that everyone knew about, right? It was like super big ticket shows that gave me access to also showcase what I was doing to broader groups, whether it was my company I was working at. My client's company, the marketplace, I wanted to go big for those 5 years, get as much exposure as possible, get exposed to as many things as possible. So that when my 5 years was up, can say I've done everything I

Alena Conley:

Mmhmm.

Alicia R:

here with the biggest. Clients possible. So for me, that's what ambitious meant, was getting access, exposure, learning as much as possible, doing the hardest work first. If I could take this client, you could put me anywhere else and I'd be just fine. And because I was in the season of doing that, I knew I was willing to sacrifice now and the way that I likely wouldn't be willing to sacrifice 10 years

Alena Conley:

Yeah. And I think having that foresight is there. Um, I think that kind of, in hindsight of me even having ambitious seasons, I think that the only thing that I would say that both of, both of us have kind of talked about before, it kind of I guess on the back end, if I wish that I would have listened to my instincts earlier, just around the type of work, right? Because to some degree, effort that doesn't align to the end goal. Not to say that it's wasted, right? Because you will be getting like transferable skills and you get X, Y, Z. But I do think that there was to some degree in my sacrificial season some trauma that was experienced that then limited my ability to to Move into the work that I love because I still had management trauma, right? So it was like, Oh, now I'm dealing with, you know, a little bit of social anxiety because I, when I come into this professional space with this type of person or this type of man, this dress, this type of way, I'm immediately triggered, I'm not bringing my full self because you know, it now is reminding me of that manager that I used to work with that kind of identifies the same. So I think that. Kind of having a healthy balance of understanding like your why right? So I think that what I'm hearing is like also still The awareness right that self awareness that we always talk about of like, okay If I'm in a space or if I'm in a season where this is like my go hard era, right or my hook my hustle 90 90 day run or whatever you want to call it I still have an awareness of my boundary is truly at 90 days, right? Or my boundary is I'm doing this analyst program for three years because if I get stuck, then I'm compromising everything else that's important to me.

Alicia R:

Critical. I didn't have an end time in mind. I knew I would do that work with that client for five years.

Alena Conley:

Mm,

Alicia R:

And in those two years between five and seven, I really should have got out in five, right? Like, that is the biggest piece is knowing and sticking to those boundaries, no matter how enticing those things are, you know, your boundary is five years, or when you hit these milestones, it's another critical thing. You might hit the milestones faster than five years.

Alena Conley:

mm,

Alicia R:

Get

Alena Conley:

mm,

Alicia R:

right? But again, as we talk about, you touched on the management piece. Notice I

Alena Conley:

mm.

Alicia R:

with the manager, right? you are stepping into has to be willful. This is all

Alena Conley:

Right,

Alicia R:

at

Alena Conley:

right.

Alicia R:

right? You have to know where you are. In your season then take on the next

Alena Conley:

Mm,

Alicia R:

right? And most people skip the acknowledgement

Alena Conley:

mm hmm.

Alicia R:

for good reasons, right?

Alena Conley:

Mm hmm.

Alicia R:

people want money that money comes.

Alena Conley:

Mm hmm.

Alicia R:

as a coach, I always talk about what do you need? What are your values? What are the things that we need to hold you accountable to? Because when that. Offer comes and I deliver offers all the time. When that offer comes, going to be tough to say no if they go higher than

Alena Conley:

Right.

Alicia R:

So what are our values? What is the season that we're in? What are we honoring in the season? Do these things align with the job that you're taking on? Paycheck excluded

Alena Conley:

Mm-Hmm.

Alicia R:

right? And if it does,

Alena Conley:

Mm-Hmm.

Alicia R:

money, right? But we often start with the money and then we start backtracking management and all these other things. And now we're in a situation where we are not honoring

Alena Conley:

Mm-Hmm.

Alicia R:

for ourselves. And that's where I think some of the burnout comes, some of the bad

Alena Conley:

Mm-Hmm.

Alicia R:

in. So I start typically with season because it's all about you first. Then the company.

Alena Conley:

Yeah. That's great advice. Um, so let's talk more about though, kind of knowing the characteristics of a manager. Right. So I know that you kind of.

Alicia R:

Yeah,

Alena Conley:

Even in our last conversation, you talked about how you identify like, okay, I know that I need to work with somebody who's not uber ambitious right now in this season, because like, we just got to really, um, here goes our AI thumbs up again. Um, we really have to complement each other in terms of expectations. So what are some of the things that one would look for?

Alicia R:

Yeah, I think it's really going to be personal, but these are some of the top things that kind of stand out for managers, right? They are supportive of your career, right? So they want to see you win, whether it's on their team

Alena Conley:

Mm hmm. Mm

Alicia R:

huge, huge thing. When I talk about ambitious managers and how it doesn't work for

Alena Conley:

hmm.

Alicia R:

because. If you want to be ambitious, my goal is going to be to help your ambition. Right. And I know that I want to, I want you to be helping me with my ambition. And so a part of this is you knowing how people work, right? So being supportive of your career, these would be great people and they want to see you win. But a part of them knows that having you on their team helps them win. And they may not be able to win without you. So you want to know. How do they look at ambition? How do they look at supporting their team? So one question that came up that you can ask is What has been the career progression

Alena Conley:

Mmm, I like that.

Alicia R:

over the last 2 to 3 years? Right. That'll tell you if they are keeping their team around. I was always told in 2 to 3 years, you should be thinking about your next move. So, if someone hasn't progressed a team member,

Alena Conley:

Yeah. Mm

Alicia R:

In two to three years, maybe career progression is not top of list, top of the list for them. Right. And those are things you wanna know upfront because everyone wants a promotion. Trust me, you know, they have not talked about promotions with their

Alena Conley:

hmm.

Alicia R:

I don't know if that's gonna happen for

Alena Conley:

And I think that even from the manager view, right, if I'm, because we, again, we know we have a lot of middle managers that tune in, I would be thinking, like, it's kind of like, when we talk about kind of going deep and wide, right? It's like, okay, once you know you have, like, this talent, this skill that you're providing as an individual contributor, Most times you then are asked to take these management positions and the skill set changes, right? The skill set then becomes how can you develop other people and that alone helps you just determine Okay, do I even want to go into management, right? But as i'm listening to you As an as someone who's looking for great managers if I know I want to be a great manager Then I also need to be identifying my metrics of like, how successful can I make my team members? And then what are the skill sets that I can develop to do that? Right. Because I know when I worked in sales, it was kind of like, I can be a great salesperson, but I always limit my income if I can't teach my team to sell. Or to have confidence or to learn how to do x y and z skills So how do I now become more influential to? exponentially grow Um them right which was a completely different skill set. So, okay. What are some other characteristics of good managers? Not cool

Alicia R:

Surprise me in a performance review and see what happens. Like, see how fast I don't pull these receipts out, right? Like, giving good feedback that is, you know, it's the, the way you give the feedback, right? So, The managers that I've had who did not do this well, they didn't come prepared. They had no examples. They had, they just had like these feelings. You could just tell, they just prepared it really quick before the meeting. And they're like, yeah, I think you should here. And it's like, I spent days preparing for my performance review. Like come here 10 minutes before the meeting thinking that that's going to like land on me. Right. So I think. the preparedness, but also understanding the ways to deliver the information, right? Context is big for me. So if you're giving me feedback around performance or sales and service, me understand why that is so impactful. Why is that a metric, right? And I think that's the difficult part for a lot of managers.

Alena Conley:

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm

Alicia R:

your skills and your experience and the metrics and how it all makes sense. So, I empathize with managers having been a manager. It does take quite a bit of

Alena Conley:

hmm.

Alicia R:

and effort. One of the things that they mention in these articles that, Frontline managers don't have, they're not given the training nor the time to really do the work of

Alena Conley:

Mm hmm.

Alicia R:

They're often straddled with also doing

Alena Conley:

Right. They in the field too. Right.

Alicia R:

right? I empathize, but I do think that feedback is often the toughest part of this work. And oftentimes because you don't prepare from the

Alena Conley:

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Alicia R:

what are you now holding me accountable to at the end of the year that I'm now having to deal with my bonus and things like that, right? So, For all the managers out there start with goals at the beginning of the year, whenever you take the team on so that you can consistently give that feedback relative to those goals so that you've been preparing all year for that end of your conversation. It's not a surprise and you have documented all of those pieces

Alena Conley:

Mm hmm. Yeah, I mean, I was just raving about, I don't know who I was talking to, but I was raving about my daughter's, um, teacher, And I even gave her this compliment in our parent teacher conference because her preparedness is just so incredible. And she's been a teacher for 20 plus years and it shows right? Because when she comes, and this was like a impromptu conference, right? It wasn't like a, okay, it's conference season. It was like, hey, you know, I'm noticing some things at home. I want to hear what's going on in school. But even with it being. You know me prompting it she came with the metrics, right? It's never subjective. It's never Oh, she's doing great. What does that mean to me, right? Playing with the this is how she's performing your reading This is what her standardized tests say these were the grades from her last three tests. This is how she's doing in math This is what we've noticed from a behavior standpoint, you know It's the good the opportunities whatever right and it's like Do you have any questions? No, I don't because you gave me everything that I need to know. You, I do have a few questions that you then are giving me more metrics to support with. It's not just like bubbly stuff. And I can appreciate that because now I really, you know, have hardcore things that I can build upon as a parent. And it's the same way, you know, in that, in that workspace is. We constantly want employees to do a better job, but it can't be this ambiguity So when looking at this though, how do you as an employee? Like what do you do if you're with a manager who comes unprepared to a meeting? How do you address this?

Alicia R:

First off, you got to know before you get to anything performance review related that your manager is just not, this

Alena Conley:

Okay

Alicia R:

their main focus. So you know already, right? What I would suggest is if you take it into your own hands, right? So I have like an Excel tracker. It's the easiest thing I use. You have an Excel tracker in the columns. You have the date that you speak with your manager. I speak to my manager every week, but whatever cadence you talk to your manager at the top, you have those dates. the rows you have the different objectives or topics that are top of mind for you Every week you track what you're doing week. So you tell your manager. Hey, here's what i'm working on this week Here's what i've accomplished etc. When you have a big accomplishment highlight it in the tracker that way you don't forget Every three months I go back and look at the highlighted things and let them know what i've accomplished every six months same thing End of the year same thing you will forget what you've accomplished everybody It's April. I don't know what I

Alena Conley:

Exactly

Alicia R:

Just track it for yourself so that you can have that information top of mind

Alena Conley:

Yeah,

Alicia R:

And I really emphasize this is your performance review. So as much as we want our managers to show up and be these dynamic, you know, great leaders, they're not, but guess what's going to stay behind your name.

Alena Conley:

Right.

Alicia R:

review. So it's up to you to be effectively tracking that information and making sure you're documenting that because the other thing of this is If your manager leaves

Alena Conley:

Ugh. That's the worst. That's the worst. Huh. Huh. Huh.

Alicia R:

I say this from experience. How many times do people leave and you're like, wait, what? We, did you tell them what we talked about? No, they didn't have time. They were heading out. Right? So you need to be constantly documenting that, especially if you have systems for this. in the system so that when it comes to the end of the year, whether you have a new manager or your existing manager, everyone's on the

Alena Conley:

And honestly, I feel like these are like life skills, right? And so, in a, in a previous episode, um, with Chanel Tyler, we joked about how, you know, as career women, we had all these skills that were like, not relevant as mothers and wives. Um, but I will say that that is something that has transferred to make me appear to be a star parent in situations, or even, you know, a stellar wife, right? Because To your point i'm gonna forget everything right like when prince was in the hospital I would I made notes of every nurse every name every medication Because i'm gonna forget right and I would even communicate to them Hey when you come in here, please don't have a conversation if you see i'm unavailable, right? Because there was one point I was like on a work call and then this lady from another department came in and I was like You know just stop she's like well I'm not available Is he forgetful? No, it's not that he's forgetful, but like, we need to have a record of what's being said because to your point, as soon as the manager leaves, everything that you thought they were tracking is gone. You don't know where their stuff is. As soon as a shift change at a hospital, you know, or as soon as

Alicia R:

Yes.

Alena Conley:

teacher leaves at the school, every conversation or every promise not delivered is gone out the window, right? And so I think that,

Alicia R:

Yes.

Alena Conley:

know, being very anal about these things in a society where accountability is everything and you have to advocate for yourself. These are kind of these, these are these, um, Life skills that I talk about, especially with younger, um, team members or employees. It's like, hey, get in the habit of building systems for yourself and making time for reflection because you don't want to be in a season where you just have no clue what you want because you haven't slowed down enough to actually have a practice of saying, okay, let me read back to like how this week went. What happened? What were the conversations that I had that made, made sense, or did just, didn't make me feel good? How can I alter that environment, you know?

Alicia R:

Yes, and you just spoke to it Alina, like, everyone is a person. I know this is so

Alena Conley:

yeah.

Alicia R:

but your

Alena Conley:

Yeah.

Alicia R:

and you don't know what's happening at home. They could be dealing with a spouse

Alena Conley:

Mm.

Alicia R:

so they have a whole list of other things that they're keeping track of. Then they have kids. Whole other lists of

Alena Conley:

Yeah.

Alicia R:

track of. Then they have family members. You are one person on that person's list of things to remember.

Alena Conley:

right?

Alicia R:

So it's reasonable that they might forget, right? Now, it doesn't excuse bad behaviors by any means, but understand your manager is a person. They are likely in other things that Require their attention, them a solid and write the things down for them. Because I know for me as a manager, I was like, thank you for that

Alena Conley:

Mm-Hmm.

Alicia R:

In fact, now that I remember, let me help you better articulate how important that thing

Alena Conley:

Mm-Hmm.

Alicia R:

is.

Alena Conley:

Mm-Hmm.

Alicia R:

where the leadership comes in to say, yeah, from my purview, here's how that is actually even more relevant to more broader things in the organization. So

Alena Conley:

Right. Yeah, and I think that that actually ends up being something that managers like about people when they notice like you're good at tracking yourself because it builds like a level of trust. Like, okay, this person is not just reactive. They're proactive. I know that, you know, this is important to them. And so when it comes to. Giving them extra information or insight. They trust them with that. So I think I, I love that. All right, let's keep going. What else you got?

Alicia R:

was

Alena Conley:

Okay.

Alicia R:

one. You hit it. Trust. A. K. A. micromanagement trust, right? So people complain about micromanagers or like can't find the manager right on the opposite end of that. So trust. Building trust. With

Alena Conley:

Mm-Hmm.

Alicia R:

Right. And I think to your point, trust is a two way street, right? So I know listeners are like, Alicia, you just love managers. And I'm like, I mean coming from being a manager It is a two way street.

Alena Conley:

Mm-Hmm.

Alicia R:

get to know you and do my best to help tailor things to your needs.

Alena Conley:

Mm-Hmm

Alicia R:

also be reciprocated. I

Alena Conley:

mm-Hmm.

Alicia R:

trust that you are listening to what I'm saying, that you know what you're supposed to be doing, and that I can leave you to do your work without me being over your shoulder

Alena Conley:

Mm-Hmm.

Alicia R:

But when you make mistakes, now, when you make mistakes, you

Alena Conley:

Mm-Hmm.

Alicia R:

away at my trust. Because before that mistake gets made, I'm here.

Alena Conley:

right?

Alicia R:

see

Alena Conley:

Mm-Hmm.

Alicia R:

Don't just do it if you're not sure right and vice versa when big decisions are being made about how we're going to utilize your time I have to build trust with you by advocating Truly for what you are

Alena Conley:

Correct. Okay.

Alicia R:

how we can make this team more successful and advocate for that with my boss how I built trust with my team. But then I have to trust that you're doing your job the way we talked about you doing your job. surprise me with mistakes. Don't surprise me with bad feedback from a client, right? That chips away trust. I think trust piece is such a critical part. It's the thing that is not tangible. Um, it's the thing that's so delicate I do think that this part of the management conversation is probably the biggest part for a lot of people. I don't trust my manager and or I don't trust my direct report or my partner to do the work that they say they were going to do.

Alena Conley:

So I recently did, um, just like some team member feedbacks for one of my clients and you know, there was feedback around, Oh, such and such as a micromanager. Right. Um, and then when you talk to the manager, they kind of explain their approach or whatever. Right. It's always like two sides of the coin. So.

Alicia R:

Yeah,

Alena Conley:

If you feel like you're being micromanaged, right, and based on what you're saying, it sounds like there's a lack of trust there. How would somebody deal with a micromanager or identify and support an environment where they can improve the trust that their manager has so that they feel like they can release the reins a little bit?

Alicia R:

that I did a lot of, like, reading up on this, but also testing this against what I've seen realistically in corporate 2 things is 1. are you clear on what your manager wants? Are you clear sometimes we think we know, and we don't know context for me is. The biggest thing in my strengths finder list. I need to know Everything and if you can't explain to me who can where can I read about it?

Alena Conley:

Right.

Alicia R:

know exactly why we have this strategic goal. So be clear on the goals For your team be clear on the goals of the company. Some people forget we work at a company That has a leadership that likely has a bottom line goals have to make sure that the street is happy with our performance. Do you know what your company is up to? In those town halls, are you listening to the goals? You should know what your high level goals are, and you should understand how your team goals fit in to those goals, right? Sometimes

Alena Conley:

I think that,

Alicia R:

be

Alena Conley:

I just want to say this, as you're saying that, that made me think about going back to context,

Alicia R:

Yep.

Alena Conley:

I'm performing a task. I can't just be given a task. Like I need to understand how does this play into the strategy, right? Because then it gives me a desire to contribute in an effective way because I can see things. So before you keep going on, I want to stop you so that we can give some practical, um, ways to ask for context, right? So say you're dealing with a manager. And they're giving you something that feels like you don't you're not clear on what they want. How can I come back? And and get more detail

Alicia R:

Yeah, this is thinking that you have a sense of, like, you listen to town halls and you're aware of, like, what's happening in the company. Right? So, if you haven't already done that start there, but if you are someone that is present understands the goals, you can start to say, like, hey, is that in support of this? Other goal, like where, when I think about how I kind of ladder this up to my end of the year objectives, where does this fall? Because I think I am missing something here and I want to make sure I have a clear sense of where this aligns. Right? Is this something that you're working on? Is this something that's a team goal? Like, how do I understand a little bit more about how this supports our objectives? Right? Hopefully they can explain that to you, right? Um, I would hope that you have a clear sense of what that looks like from your manager. Sometimes you also might have to ask if this is something that the client asked for just like a do it because I said, so, because the client asked for it. And this is something that we need the client to be happy about for this bottom line. It could be that simple sometimes. Right? Um, so I do think it could go either way. It could be just something that we need to do for the. Health of the business, or it could be something that's actually additive to something tangible in our bottom line. Yeah.

Alena Conley:

Yeah I love that Okay So going back to what you were saying like make sure you're clear on what your manager wants and then what were some other ways We can support micromanagement

Alicia R:

I, this is my favorite thing to do. I have watched the people who are successful on my team. Like, have you ever been in a meeting and you say something and everyone's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever. And then this other person says it and they're like, yes, thank you for your contract. Wow. You're like, and people will sometimes be like, oh, it's a personal thing. really. Sometimes you are tapping in and it lands on that person the way that it needs to land to be successful. As I start to listen for what they're doing, for example, there is a person I used to work with, Annie. was so good at like, she would like, a little joke.

Alena Conley:

Mm hmm.

Alicia R:

here's the information you need. then she'd like quickly go to next steps. Like, so here's how we're going to bring it home.

Alena Conley:

Mm hmm.

Alicia R:

like watching how she did that. And then I started actually utilizing some of the things that Annie was doing. Right.

Alena Conley:

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm

Alicia R:

their individual selves and I advocate for that. I found a way to add my personal Alicia. To that, starting now, I would hit them with the Annie every single time and all of a sudden It started to work.

Alena Conley:

hmm. Mm hmm.

Alicia R:

And I know that that seems strange, but I'm the same way. There's certain people when they explain it to me, I get it. And it's like, if they just speak to me, your manager is that person. And there are certain things that they're coming in with that you have no idea about. So sometimes it is a matter of helping them to digest the information in a way that they can understand.

Alena Conley:

Yeah.

Alicia R:

you will want to, you build that trust. You may be able to add a little bit more of you in there too.

Alena Conley:

Mm hmm. I love that. These are great tips. Um, I'm just thinking about just even people that I've modeled in my career. Um, and it, I mean it really does help because I think that in the beginning, especially on a new team, you're like, I don't really know what approach I need to take with this person, so you can really just kind of look to your left and your right and see. Okay, what did they like about the illness that was here before me or you know, what what seemed to um Really pique their interest. Um in terms of style so Okay. So what else should we be looking for in good managers?

Alicia R:

Yeah, I think the biggest thing, like the last thing I would call out would be just like communication, um, and under communication, that's going to be one, how you're delivering the information, the feedback, how you were providing updates on what's happening in the company. A lot of things are happening at companies right now. So it's really important for managers to communicate to their team. What's going on, like getting ahead of news releases, if possible, bringing everyone together when big news comes out so that everyone can kind of like, talk it through. If there's something that's going to impact 1 particular team member. Getting with them before things happen, um, I think that's a huge part of this. Work is the communication. Um, and vice versa. Like I said, this goes both ways in every single thing we talk about how you communicate what's happening in your life to your manager in a way that they can understand, like if something's happening in your life, interesting. Most people are like, I'm not telling anyone at that company, any of my businesses, I'm not saying it. And it's like, you may want to give them a hint that something's happening because right now it just seems like you are not present, et cetera. Hopefully you're working with people who. Have empathy, right? If something's going on and you need to be Offline have a conversation and or figure out where your company can go to. So I always go to H. R. before I go to H. R. I read my benefits package and I figure out who are the people I need to be contacting. If that is H. R. I give H. R. a heads up. I don't always just share everything if I don't have to, but there should be a clear sense of where you should go. You know, in your company for certain things and take the measures to get ahead of those things. Even if you can, like, if you want to take a leave for a few days, you may come back earlier, but it would be better that you do that. 1st, versus start struggling your work. Now you're getting documented. Errors documented things that you're not performing well, and now you want to go out and it's like, you'd rather just get people proactive updates the same way. You'd want to proactive update if something's happening in your life. Right? So you don't have to tell too much of your personal business, but I would make sure that you're taking care of yourself and getting ahead of anything that might be. You know, contributing to your work. Yeah.

Alena Conley:

when it comes to communication for things that are going on in your personal life, do you think that it makes more sense to have written communication or verbal or like a hybrid? Like,'cause I'm always thinking, oh, if I could just talk to someone, they could really, like, I could have that transfer of energy, but then I also wanna document stuff. So what, what's kind of your strategy?

Alicia R:

It

Alena Conley:

Mm-Hmm.

Alicia R:

you're at. Um,

Alena Conley:

Mm-Hmm.

Alicia R:

be very aware if you're in a supportive environment or not. Um, when I'm in highly supportive environments, you know, I feel a little bit more comfortable, whether that's with my manager or just like a mentor, just to get their perspective. Um, sometimes you can have somebody ask for you, like just so that it's like, Hey, where would I be able to find? Leave information, right? Um,

Alena Conley:

Mm-Hmm.

Alicia R:

with the recruiter because recruiters typically know where that information is or HR person. Um, so you can get the information you need, maybe without having to speak directly to someone. Um, but in the cases where people are really supportive. I would definitely consider asking some questions, even with not the most supportive managers very least. They sent me the data. I needed to move things forward. So I think you just use your judgment. You use your resources. You do your best to have some of that information ahead of time, right? I tell people all the time. I think we talked about this in the last 1. where your benefits information is read it ahead of time. If, you know, you have things that, you know, might have to leverage know what those are ahead of time. Start inquiring about those things before you need them. But yeah, see where, if you have the support, see where you can leverage that support. If you don't have the support, go to your benefits, look online at your intranets and see what information is available to you without having to tell anyone.

Alena Conley:

Mm hmm. Okay, that's helpful. And I think that you know, um, The the recommendation to ask someone that's great feedback, right? Because it's always typically somebody who knows That person's style or knows that company culture, you know that could Either tell you or ask who know who to find out from Yeah

Alicia R:

I do that all the time. Like, you just ask them,

Alena Conley:

So, and it goes back to just like that relationships thing, right? So, I think that that's something that in these new work environments, we have to figure out more than ever. It's like, how do we make sure that we're still establishing trust amongst peers and colleagues so that when these personal things of being human, which we know happen every day,

Alicia R:

all

Alena Conley:

um,

Alicia R:

Sure.

Alena Conley:

You know we can feel comfortable Having like a source To kind of go to so I know that one of the exercises that you do Yourself or even with your clients that you kind of create like this Pros and cons list. So tell me a little bit more about your process with that

Alicia R:

for this season because for me at this point in my career, and I think at the middle management, senior management level, who you are working for may be more important than the work you're doing. Like sometimes you might take on a job just to help people. Your person, your friend out your manager out that has nothing to do with your path, but you are willing to do that work for that person because you know that they got your back on whatever's next for you. So for me, I knew I wanted to understand, okay, when I've had good managers, what was happening, right? you know, aside, what was happening that I said, Oh, this is a great manager. So I started looking at every manager I've ever had and I wrote their pros and their cons. And so I kept the pros list. That was pretty easy. And it pretty much was the same thing across the board. when I thought about the cons for each of them, I then said, all right, well, do I turn this into a pro so I can continue to add to my list? for example, if someone's not a great communicator, the, if I turn into a pro, I love great communicating managers, right? So I would take that and add that to my pros list. And then I would take it a step further in my chat GPT and say, how do I assess A manager who is great at communication during an interview,

Alena Conley:

Mm

Alicia R:

out 3 to 5 questions to help me assess good management, good communication skills.

Alena Conley:

mm

Alicia R:

an interview, and then I would tweak it. I would give a little bit more about me. Communication looks like context communication looks like a B and C.

Alena Conley:

mm-Hmm.

Alicia R:

I have really solid questions. I can use to assess those managers relative to the qualities. I'm looking for.

Alena Conley:

Mm-Hmm.

Alicia R:

So, that's how I go about

Alena Conley:

I love that deconstruction of it. So like, what are, do you have any examples of like what Chad GPT told you for that?

Alicia R:

Yeah, I mean really the ambition piece was big. I just flat out. What are your ambitions?

Alena Conley:

Hmm. Yeah,

Alicia R:

remember like I have had interviews where they're like a whole lot of ambition I'm really happy where I am and I love to see my team grow That's who I want

Alena Conley:

exactly.

Alicia R:

Yeah, you and so no ambitions, huh? So

Alena Conley:

right?

Alicia R:

support people on your team who are highly ambitious?

Alena Conley:

Mm-Hmm.

Alicia R:

love highly ambitious people

Alena Conley:

Mm-Hmm.

Alicia R:

you're going to get your stuff. to me. If you talk to me like that, I'm on board. Sign me up. And I just recently I'm coming up on one year at my company

Alena Conley:

Mm-Hmm.

Alicia R:

and I did like a post on LinkedIn. The biggest thing I talked about was the leadership. My boss because i'm going to be helping you Prepare for your speaking engagements, not mine. I'm selfish in this season. I need all these things to be about me, at least in that area. So knowing the question, but also understanding the response, boss is someone that for me, Helps put up guardrails for me. And she spoke to this in her response as well. I've really let people kind of go do their thing, but I'm always here because I have institutional knowledge here for the company to understand what's going to work, what's not going to work. another thing. My managers have to be at that company. They cannot be new managers. They cannot be new leaders. They cannot be new to that business. My manager is currently 12 years in perfect. So, you know how to make it happen. You know, who's who you know how it works here I don't want a new manager. I don't want a new person at the company because if you're new in all these things You're worrying about how you're going to be able to succeed in this role and at this company Whereas someone that's been there 12 years, they know how to help people succeed. They've succeeded it most hopefully Right so they can help you come in and say want your new ideas. We love your ambition it this way. Don't say it that way. This person's gonna need x y and z You're gonna have some trouble with this one. Like you want someone that can help kind of You you run the plays is how I kind of think about it, right? I'm the point guard But who's the coach that's over there writing out the plays for me to go up and score the basket, right? So How I think about it

Alena Conley:

I love that. So how do you balance the idea of like self worth, right? So when we're thinking about, you know, the things that we, that we believe we are worthy of, or that we deserve in our relationship with our manager, when you think about what you want, what you desire, what's your worth, essentially, And reality, right? So, you know, do these type of people exist? Is this common in this type of industry? Um, you know, can I really be in a position where I trade off my values for a check? Like, how do you find a balance between that? Cause I can imagine some people are listening in and they're just like, yeah, in a perfect world. Have you checked on like the economy lately? Girl, I'm not turning down no manager. What, what, what, well, what are your thoughts around that?

Alicia R:

again Where are we in the season, right? Like sometimes you have to know i'm taking this role so I can pay my bills for the next year Or two in the meantime, i'm going to continue to interview. That's the thing You

Alena Conley:

Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Alicia R:

getting the job. That was supposed to be the temporary job to pay the bills. And then you stop talking to recruiters. You stop posting on LinkedIn. You stop applying the jobs, right? And then you get to a place where now you're like, I can't take it anymore. Well, that was never the point. This was always supposed to be a place where you paid the bills, you knew this is not where you were going to stay long.

Alena Conley:

Mm hmm.

Alicia R:

in those moments where you have to do the realistic thing, like take the job, take the job, but no, while you're at that company, your job is to be having as many one on ones as possible. Look, I'm gonna be everybody in here to see who can help me find something that's more aligned to my skills. I'm going to. Keep a lookout of who are the kinds of managers that I would want to have, right? Build relationships with them so that when the year comes, could be talking to them about, hey, Are there any openings on your team? Right? So the goal is just to be aware of what these roles represent in your season and treat them accordingly, right?

Alena Conley:

Right.

Alicia R:

comfortable in a place you don't want to stay in.

Alena Conley:

Yeah.

Alicia R:

you shouldn't have a whole bunch of photos on the board. You shouldn't have all of that. You should be coming in pen, paper, get your work done. And you know, you're going home or going to wherever else to make sure you can take care of yourself and your family, et cetera. Right. So we have to be aware that there's an ending point. There's a reason for me being here right now. How do I use this time now that my bills are paid to then go after the things that are more important to me or most important to me in this season?

Alena Conley:

Yeah, I love that. Well, this has just been very practical. I think that, you know, anybody listening, they're kind of definitely at the point where they're reconsidering how they either engage with their own, systems, personal systems for tracking engagement with management. Or they're also thinking about, okay, what season am I in? Am I, am I in a season where I can deal with my current manager? Do I need to look for another one? And then really being able to use the information provided today to create tools that help them identify it, right? Because it can be a process. I think that. You know, with anything it's first kind of having that self discovery piece of like, what do I want, you know? And why is it that I find this type of manager challenging? Is it a me thing or is it a them thing? Right. Um, and, and really working through, you know, tho those type of things, um, to get to the end realization of like, okay, this is my list now, as I'm going out and I'm interviewing, I can be very clear on what I want, why I want it, what I can bend on, what I can't. Um, and then kind of go from there. So Thank you as always for providing us with ways to lead and thrive in our career Um, if you all have any additional questions for alicia on this topic Um, alicia give them some information In terms of how they can reach out to you directly to maybe ask specific questions about their careers

Alicia R:

Sure, so you can find me on pretty much anywhere But specifically tick tock and Instagram. I am th ee Alicia Roebuck anywhere else. I'm just Alicia Roebuck. So LinkedIn Facebook, etc Please share any questions that you have In my DMS on any of my posts I'd be happy to help you think through some of these situations. I know our main goal is to sometimes just like it's the manager's fault. Um, sometimes it is, but most times it's, you know, our opportunity to find more alignment for ourselves and that's not going to come from anyone but us. So I hope you all feel empowered. anything, um, I hope that this We really wanted to do this conversation because we know we hear everyone talking about their managers and the situations going on. So would be more than happy to help you all think through some of your situations. Um, and if you want to do a part two, I'm always here for that as well.

Alena Conley:

I love it. Alright guys, thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next month. Same time, same place. Thank you for tuning in to get another episode of the reminder remedy. If you haven't already be sure to follow us on Instagram at the reminder remedy, as well as my personal page at Alina Conley and check out our latest workshops and resources at the reminder remedy.

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Alena Conley

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